Are Tesla sales slowing in California?

California has always been the strongest market for Tesla Motors. The company is based in Palo Alto, and the all-electric vehicle has proven to be wildly popular in both Los Angeles and Silicon Valley. The car is a top seller in tiny, tony Atherton.

According to the California New Car Dealers Association, Tesla delivered 8,347 Model S sedans in California in 2013. If you assume that Tesla sold at least 23,000 cars for the year, that makes California responsible for 36 percent of  the company’s sales in 2013.

In January, Tesla pre-announced Q4 earnings and said 6,900 vehicles were sold and delivered. According to the CNCDA, 1,793 vehicles were sold in California in Q4, or 26 percent.

The CNCDA data is based on Polk, which draws from data provided by the Department of Motor Vehicles. So it’s counting deliveries instead of just sales.

But quarter-over-quarter, Tesla sales in the Golden State appear to have  slowed a bit:

 

Period

2013 Tesla Sales in California

(as reported in each Quarterly Auto Outlook)

Q1

2,406

Q2

2,308

Q3

1,823

Q4

1,793

Total

8,330*

* Q4 Auto Outlook shows 8,347 for 2013, so some minor adjustments were made based on updated Polk data.

It could be that more cars are being allocated to other regions to feed growing demand from Europe and China. And Tesla now has sales in all 50 states, including three (!) deliveries in Mississippi.

This isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Tesla doesn’t want to be seen as a company that only makes cars for rich Hollywood stars and Silicon Valley tech moguls. And it’s not. Though the Model S price tag is out of reach for most Americans, the first person to drive the Model S coast-to-coast using the company’s network of free Superchargers was John Glenney of Lexington, Ky.

“As Tesla continues to expand their roll-out both domestic and abroad, there will be less supply for California – their first market,” said Jessica Caldwell of Edmunds.com.

Tesla will report 4Q earnings on Feb. 19. Analysts are eager to hear about sales in Germany and China, plans for building a “gigafactory” for batteries, progress on the Model X and Gen III and guidance for 2014.

Photo: Model S sedans sit in Tesla Motors’ expanded showroom at Santana Row in San Jose on April, 4, 2013. (Dai Sugano/Mercury News)

 

 

 

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  • Steve H

    Tesla had a reservation list of roughly 14,000 before a single Model S was delivered to a customer in 2012.

    so, while you have data about deliveries in California for each of those past quarters in the table, the early quarters’ deliveries were largely from orders placed as much as 3 years before delivery.

    that said, the numbers are suggestive that demand is about 1,800 vehicles per quarter in California (though, as you mentioned this is only suggestive as we don’t know the effect of cars being shipped to the EU, and just starting now in China, on Tesla’s ability to get cars to California customers as quickly as in the past).

    • Tarek Sherif

      Ok , but what share holder want to heard from Tesla is a growing sales in all the market even California . They believe that Tesla could sell around 200k car in 2016 . we need to know how many people have order their car and still waiting to deliver .

      Model x will not be deliver until the end of 2014 . and we not going to see a new model from Tesla untill 2017 maybe a update from model s

      • WeaponZero

        The demand is expected to be around 100k – 120k a year for model S and X. They are not going to break the 200k mark until the Gen 3. Simply due to the constraints of the market. If Tesla sells 120k cars in 2016/2017 and can get 30% margins, that would more than justify it’s current stock valuation.

        Also, musk did hint of an AWD Model S and a slightly larger battery next year.

        • disqus_IjgvVbf1U1

          I would think the possibility of an AWD Model S would have some potential customers delay their order. Add to that a bigger battery? Yeah I’ll make the Mercedes last another year so I can have a 90 to 100 kW Model S.

          Sales were bound to settle to a plateau, and 1800 per quarter in a single state without advertising sounds pretty good to me. Let’s expand that to all 50 states and average it out a bit for population and whatnot. Spitball math says an average of 900 cars per quarter per state ===== that’s 45,000 cars per quarter or 180,000 cars per year. In one country. They aren’t planning to build that many Model S cars anytime soon so I see no fear of saturating the market.

          • Mark B. Spiegel

            ” Let’s expand that to all 50 states and average it out a bit for population and whatnot.”

            Yes, well along with your “whatnot” you’d better expand year-round mild weather, Atherton-level incomes, horrible traffic combined with HOV stickers and an extra $2500 tax credit to all 50 states.

          • disqus_IjgvVbf1U1

            Why would I need to do that? I’ve already estimated the average at half of California’s demand.

            You want lower numbers?

            Fine, 450 cars per state per quarter spitball average = 22,500 cars per quarter.

            That’s 90,000 Model S cars per year in the US.

            That’s still more Tesla Model Ss than Tesla plans to build per year over the next few years.

            You aren’t Logical here just like you aren’t Logical on Seeking Alpha.

            You’ve stuck yourself with an irrational short position and the prospect of Tesla pushing solidly past the $200 mark has you quaking in those very shorts. Must be really uncomfortable knowing that you’re in the very likely position of being out enough money for a very nicely optioned out M5.

            Have a nice day.

          • Mark B. Spiegel

            You can make up however many “sales per state per quarter” you like– that’s the beautiful thing about a “story stock” with stalling home-market sales selling at nearly 10x forward revenue in an industry that sells at 0.5x to 1.5x. This game is far from over– let’s see how your $30 billion (fully diluted) company is valued six months from now when European sales growth has stalled too. I’m a very patient investor, and at 10x one-year forward revenue I guess you must be also, so it will be fun to find out who’s right here.

          • disqus_IjgvVbf1U1

            Hey we are all just trying to bang out some numbers we can use as a metric for this company. We’ve both risked a small amount of wealth and we sit at opposite sides of the table with regard to Tesla and forward demand.

            You must agree however that the rumor of added features (AWD) or a larger battery would have some people who are “on the fence” about purchasing a Model S taking a wait and see approach, holding some potential sales back. There also isn’t very much brand awareness around Tesla yet, as they do not advertise. If demand does start to wane to the point that the factory capacity and battery supply can produce cars at a greater than demand rate that’s when you will see a Tesla add campaign.

            So what I’m saying is, when Tesla starts advertising like the major brands, then I’ll consider that they have declining sales relative to production capacity.

          • Mark B. Spiegel

            Those are perfectly valid points, but the market for limited range electric cars in this price range is extremely limited (a handful of “40 minutes for an 80% charge” Superchargers not withstanding) and the competition isn’t standing still. Audi will have a legitimate Model X competitor out for the 2017 model year (perhaps as soon as a year after the “X” debuts in 2015) and BMW will be taking the carbon fiber technology it pioneered in the i3 and using it to build a “lightweight” (relative to the “Model S/X”) i7. Meanwhile, right now the i3 may be just interesting enough (and much easier to park) for the potential S60 “stretch buyer,” at a $30,000 savings. And on the lower end (competing with the possible Model E) there will be a huge onslaught of competition coming by 2017/18. People paying the current price for TSLA don’t seem to discount any of that.

          • Ad van der Meer

            You seem to have a lot of faith in BMW and Audi. I predict they will continue to stall the development of alternative drivetrains as they have over the past 30 years and collect subsidies for their R&D. They really don’t care to give up their ICE cash cow until they really have to.
            The Audi Model X competitor will turn out to be a plug in hybrid at best and an i7 won’t come to market until the BMW has convinced themselves that that car will make a positive contribution to the financial results of their bonusses. Don’t count on seeing that car until 2020.
            You can trust Tesla and Musk won’t sit on their hands in the mean time and leave the Model S unchanged. More features and an new battery will improve the Model S proposition and raise the bar for competitors to meet.
            I am not saying Tesla will dominate the markets in 2020, but the competition is not impressive so far.

          • Mark B. Spiegel

            This talk about “not wanting to give up their ICE cash cow” is just silly. They’re businesspeople who will go where the money is– what the heck do they care if they’re making it in gas cars or electric ones? In fact, they– unlike Tesla– have the ability to cross-subsidize their PEV businesses with the profits from their conventional car businesses. And as for your comments about the Audi Model X competitor, you’d better take your head out of the ground: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1090115_targeting-tesla-model-x-2017-audi-q8-e-tron-all-electric-crossover-utility

          • disqus_IjgvVbf1U1

            Ha ha.

            The photo at the top of the linked article is of an Audi with the letters TDI proudly emblazoned on the side.

            I’ve never saw a Turbo Direct Injection EV before. I assume that the turbocharger directly injects the electrons into the motor? Or does it help with charging the battery faster?

          • Mark B. Spiegel

            Obviously there’s no photo yet available of the actual car. Hey, if you think it’s vaporware feel free to buy more TSLA @ $30 billion… That’s what makes a market!

          • PaloAltoWorldView

            Thanks for stating extremely well the point I have been trying to make for a long time: “This talk about “not wanting to give up their ICE cash cow” is just silly. They’re businesspeople who will go where the money is– what the heck do they care if they’re making it in gas cars or electric ones? In fact, they– unlike Tesla– have the ability to cross-subsidize their PEV businesses with the profits from their conventional car businesses.”

          • Ad van der Meer

            I am supposed to take my head out of the ground, but you believe an unnamed source at Audi mentioned in on car website that has been copy pasted from a other car website…
            Take some time and study the behaviour of German car manufacturers for the last 30 years concerning alternative drive trains and the flow of subsidies from the national, state and local governments. Do try and note how “promising” progress is followed by subsidies leading to … nothing until legislation forces them. I am sure you know how to use google, but let me give you a hint. Try and find the video `Die Leise Revolution` from the German TV station ARD. It is a good start but only 10% of the story. Research requires work, not just taking the written word of a website which in turn quotes a unnamed senior executive which you very well know could be the authors thumb fabricating a story which could very well be true, at least in part or not at all. Journalism is production work these days and journalistic intergrity takes a back seat more often than is good for the business.
            I assume the same could be said about your business (and mine). It pays to be sceptical, do your own research on which you can base your opinion.

          • Mark B. Spiegel

            @advandermeer:disqus Okay dude, whatever. Tesla is a decade ahead of the competition and will stay that way… Buy more!

          • Ad van der Meer

            Okay dude, you just keep spilling whatever you are selling without doing research…

          • Capt996

            But the big difference is the dealer network tesla doesn’t have to deal with. Dealers simply don’t want EV’s. No money to be made scamming consumers on unneeded maintenance.

          • PaloAltoWorldView

            That’s a good point, but you fail to remember that VW/Audi or any other auto OEM isn’t in line with their dealers on this. A car OEM wants to sell EVs. The fact that the independent dealers they are legally mandated to use don’t, is a different story.

          • Yogi baba

            This is complete hogwash. I bought my EV from Chevy dealer that sells many gas cars. Why would they not sell a 28K spark EV if their average car price is around that range? Why wouldn’t they sell a 70K tesla for that matter?
            With every EV sales, it isn’t the dealers that suffer. It’s the Chinese people who suffer from acid rain. It’s the common taxpayers who subsidize rich people’s fancy hobbies of driving cross country with giant electric car battery to prove their stupid point.

          • Capt996

            Why wouldn’t they? Very simple again. There is little maintenance required of an EV. And service is where dealers make their money, not on selling the car. And that is he most basic reason, dozens more reasons as well, beginning with lack of knowledge, training, parts, ,etc…

            And great job trying to throw in subsidies and the rich. You should be proud! Guess the EV drivers should be saying the same about subsidizing ICE cars and their very large oil consumption issue.
            Or I guess with the rich issue you bring up, you don’t have a flat screen tv in your home? Guess those initial high prices on tv’s( $20000) made them only be bought by the rich. And than, as they sold, the prices slowly drifted down to what we have today. Same for Tesla’s.
            Sad when people only want to blame others for their lack of success in life. Do something about it.

          • Capt996

            Really. Why wouldn’t they sell a 70k,tesla ? Because they make zero money. And won’t be able to scam the consumer on future service. Very simple. Tesla. One price. And zero profit for maintenance. Completely opposite of the dealer system

          • Capt996

            Why would they not sell an EV? Very simple. Maintenance. Service is 79% of a dealers profit. And little maintenance on an EV. They make very little on car sales. So once again, dealers have zero incentive to sell an EV.

          • Yogi baba

            BMW i3 already outsold model S in europe last quarter. I think, best strategy for Tesla to remain solvent is to start building gas model S; they can easily increase their sales due to the hype it enjoys.

          • Capt996

            Where will people drive this audi model x competitor? They are not going to get very far with the current charging network, and it’s slowness.
            That’s the exact reason tesla is building out its own supercharger network. Makes long driving easy and pain free. But it is for 100% of their cars. Audi is simply not going to spend the money to develop there own supercharger network when it would only work on a very small 1-10% of the cars they produce. Simple.

          • disqus_IjgvVbf1U1

            “Limited range” in the sense of East Coast to West Coast and back without paying for fuel right?

            If you could just restrain yourself from using terms like limited range and limited market. We could have a somewhat intelligent discussion (I’ll even stop spitballing numbers).

            All vehicles have limited range. Electric cars don’t suffer from range limitations they suffer from recharge limitations. A gasoline or diesel car can refuel in as little as 5min (if you are already at the gas pump) so that makes 20-40min seem like an eternity if you haven’t shifted paradigms yet. The 20-40min supercharger visit isn’t a common occurrence for the average Tesla owner a supercharger visit would be a “I’m hungry, I have to pee, and I really need to stretch my legs after 3hours sitting in the car” moment. And I would expect that any mad dashes cross country will be covered by 90second battery swaps over the next few years (these are much more expensive to build but mark a new revenue stream for Tesla) Most Tesla owners recharge at home a process that takes them a few seconds. So your “limited range” argument is no longer valid.

            As for “limited market” all cars are built for limited markets. $100,000 cars don’t sell to very many single mothers. I can’t haul firewood in my ML500, that’s why I own a truck. Porsche Boxsters don’t sell to many young couples with three kids. All cars have limitations in capability and market potential. So that’s a useless argument as well.

            And now I’m off to look into this MASSIVE TOYOTA PRIUS RECALL.

          • Mark B. Spiegel

            Anyone who thinks it isn’t a pain in the @ss to take a PEV on a long road trip is a deluded gadget freak. PEVs make for interesting commuter cars if you have a garage in which to charge them and don’t take road trips. And as for the “limited market,” let’s just say that TSLA is priced for an UNLIMITED market.

          • disqus_IjgvVbf1U1

            All the Nissan Leafs charge outside at the local dealership. The local Carshare EV’s charge outside as well. Why do you need a garage?

          • Mark B. Spiegel

            I don’t know anyone who buys an electric car without a home garage in which to charge it. Do such people possibly exist? Sure– there are a handful more of them than there are leprechauns.

          • disqus_IjgvVbf1U1

            Then you are either saying that 0x0=>0 or you believe in leprechauns.

            Either way you have turned a circular argument into a spiral down the drain from which you can’t return.

            No sense in my replying further to you as I do not wish to follow down your short sided drain hole of an argument.

          • PaloAltoWorldView

            There are very few people who do, but they do exist. They charge in a muni garage in the neighborhood overnight, and/or at the office during the day. Clearly a small minority (under 10%), but they do exist and it works just fine for them.

          • Steve

            Valid point. Some workplaces offer employees the ability to charge at work. I know having a garage was a big factor in me getting a Model S.

          • Yogi baba

            Parking outside in cold conditions can automatically drain most batteries, or even outright damage the expensive battery. I don’t think anyone living in cold climates would do that. This is yet another fragility of the EV cars.

          • Steve

            Because charging at the dealership isn’t convenient when it takes half the charge to get back home. EVs in general need to improve in range, and charging stations need to expand (which they are). It will be practical… it’s getting there.

          • disqus_IjgvVbf1U1

            You charge at home. Public chargers are for opportunity charging while out and about. The only reason you wouldn’t charge at home while you sleep is if you didn’t have electricity.

          • Steve

            That’s understood. I understand having charging stations at malls, restaurants, hotels and parks. I just can’t see myself driving to a car dealership for a charge. I would assume the charging stations at the dealerships would be to top off the cars being prepped after a sale.

          • disqus_IjgvVbf1U1

            I was responding to the blanket statement that EV’s can only be charged if they are kept indoors. It is common straw man argument that is used by the anti-EV crowd.

            EV’s at the local dealership are charged while outside, Carshare EV’s are charged while sitting outside, Teslas on road trips charge while sitting outside at superchargers. So why would you need a garage?

          • PaloAltoWorldView

            Obviously nobody needs to charge a car indoors. Has anyone said this? Most people charge outdoors.

          • disqus_IjgvVbf1U1

            Read Marks comments here as well as other anti-EV commenters elsewhere. It is often listed as a “limitation” of electric cars in that only people who have a garage to charge in can own an EV. I do agree you need a dedicated parking space with a charger but this space does not need to be indoors. People who are forced to use on street parking do have a problem right now with regard to EV ownership but forward thinking people are finding solutions.

            In parts of Northern Canada all parking spaces are equipped with an outlet for plugging in block heaters. As EV’s gain market share municipalities, employers, landlords, and retail businesses will add this very simple technology.

            Plugging in an EV is not like fuelling an ICE you don’t need to go to a fuelling station. The infrastructure is everywhere we just need to tap into this existing systems to install charging plugs. Imagine if gasoline was delivered via pipes to every building in a city. Would you need gas stations? No you would fill up your car wherever and whenever you wanted, most likely at home so you would have a full tank every morning. This is the paradigm shift that I mentioned earlier. The shift that posters like Mark have not yet made. I personally do not yet own an EV but I possess the mental flexibility to see how an EV would work very well for my life.

            I would gladly trade my 40 minutes and $90 per week gas detour for the 40 minute free rest stop on the twice per year road trip (I take these rests anyway but they cost >$90). All of my other daily driving is well within the 425km range of a Tesla so I could easily charge each night in my driveway while I sleep.

          • Yogi baba

            I park on my driveway; garage is full of crap. Unfortunately, most EV car manuals explictly say not to use an extension cord. But I could successfully use a good 12 gauge, 25 ft extension cord from home depot to connect my chevy spark ev for occasional charges. Good thing, spark EV has an option to charge at 8A, which keeps the voltage drop in the extension cord in control.
            I’m just wondering, what it would take to charge a tesla model s with trickle charge. It will probably take days. If people need to install special chargers with 1K-2K additional cost, it will cut out 90% of potential buyers.

          • PaloAltoWorldView

            You are exactly correct, at least as far as 240 volt AC charging is concerned. As for 440 volt DC charging, I can see someone stopping by a car dealership to get 20 minutes of juice while they look at cars and get a cup of coffee.

          • Yogi baba

            I charge at work; it’s free. And it’s too painful for me to hook it up two times per day, both at home and at work. Hoping to recoup the cost differential of ev car with free charge – that’s 40 miles rt for free everyday. Till the battery lasts, obviously.
            But my company is refusing to build more charging stations. And once more people buy EVs, my luck of free charge everyday will run out, as I will have to jostle for charging stations at work.

          • Yogi baba

            Tesla wasted money building its superchargers. Now, all Nissan dealerships offer fast charge for their own cars. And all chevys also come with fast DC charge ports – 80% charge in 20 mins.

          • disqus_IjgvVbf1U1

            I’ve been to my local Nissan dealership and after hours they block access to their charger.

            I would not call the supercharger a waste of money. 80% of the Leafs range is only only about 65 miles – 20 minutes at a supercharger adds many more miles and allows for cross country travel. They are also located where you would want to spend 20 minutes to an hour – unlike the dealership option.

          • disqus_IjgvVbf1U1

            Driving ANYTHING cross country is a pain. That’s why we have airlines and even a few trains.

            The day you drive an EV cross country is the day I’ll listen to your opinion about wether its convenient or not.

          • Mark B. Spiegel

            I live in New York City. Last summer (a typical one for me) I took 250-mile (or greater) each way trips to Ithaca, the far end of Cape Cod and the northern Adirondacks, as well as a couple of 200-mile+ round trip-day trips to Lime Rock, Ct. None of those would have been convenient (or maybe even possible) if I had to hunt down charging stations. Like 99.9% of Americans, I want to stop when I want where I want and not have to arrange my trips around a handful or charging stations. So let’s just agree to disagree on this one, okay?

          • PaloAltoWorldView

            The counter-argument would be that for those few trips, you probably just want to rent the appropriate tool for the task. I also rent a U-Haul van the times when I need to move a piece of furniture of equivalent.

          • Yogi baba

            Electric cars have myriad problems. They sold last quarter in europe mainly due to massive govt. incentives in norway and holland. Model s sales in Dec’13 in Holland : 576. Jan – only 7!

            I bought a chevy spark ev for commute, and I work right next to tesla factory. But I’m keeping my old gas car for longer trips. Without govt. incentives worth $10K, even this $26K car with 100 mile range doesn’t make economic sense.
            I’m sure Tesla will go the fisker karma way; the only question is when. They better start making some gas model s cars, since its safety rating seems good. That might help it from going insolvent.

          • EV docmaker

            You can charge at any hotel they don’t need boxes on the wall just ask for the manager and the house electrician they can hook you up.

          • Capt996

            So far it’s been pretty easy for me as well as thousands of other tesla owners. Try it and you’ll see versus just making things up. Did your great haram parents dismiss the ICE car as well and want to stick to the horse and buggy?

          • EV docmaker

            20 minutes would only feel like an eternity if you were standing there you are not !

          • Capt996

            Audi will beer have their competitor out in 2017. And if thy did. Where do you drive it without a supercharger network like tesla. Audi or any other car manufacturer is never going to build their own network.

          • PaloAltoWorldView

            I’d buy a Tesla WITHOUT the supercharger network. I never drive a car more than 100 or so miles away from home, so a 200-250 mile REAL range (not rated range) should be enough. If I should have to take a 200+ mile road trip, I’d rent a car. As for supercharger network (funny word for 440 volt DC), what makes you think Audi (or BMW or GM or Nissan) won’t have one by 2016-2017? Tesla didn’t have one 18 months ago either.

          • Capt996

            Why wouldn’t they? Because it is expensive and only for a very small part of their car population. Very simple. Why rent a car when you could easily drive a tesla.
            Sad you have such narrow vision.

          • PaloAltoWorldView

            The reason is that Tesla managed to get a $25 billion market cap based on selling 25,000 cars per year and investing how much — $100 million? — in a charging network. If I were the boss at VW or BMW or Nissan or GM, I’d say: Wow, that was easy! I’d tell my troops to copy the darn thing quickly, because it seems to be a simple way to add a lot of billions to my market value at seemingly comparatively little investment compared to traditional metrics.

            As for “easily drive a Tesla” — not exactly. It only works if you’re going on one of the Tesla-enabled freeways, and I may not want to be subject to any potential wait-time for people charging ahead of me in line, that’s why. Or I’m simply going somewhere there are no Tesla chargers — Yosemite, whatever.

          • PaloAltoWorldView

            Are you predicting 90,000 Teslas sold in the US per year? If so, for which year?

          • disqus_IjgvVbf1U1

            Just pointing out potential.

          • PaloAltoWorldView

            Well the POTENTIAL is higher than that. A lot higher. That’s not the issue. The issue is a “most likely scenario” inside a “reasonable probability band” of outcomes. In other words, a number where you — and everyone else — would be willing to bet money on the outcome.

          • Steve

            No need to wait. The batteries are interchangeable, so you can get a Model S with an 85 kW battery now, and upgrade the battery later.

          • disqus_IjgvVbf1U1

            Ah but then days like today I do so like my AWD.

          • JackB125

            Coming in 2015. Expect the 0-60mph time to drop significantly. Also, expect the most effective traction & stability control on any vehicle to date. Exciting times for automobiles.

          • EV docmaker

            that is kWh for batteries kw for motors.

          • disqus_IjgvVbf1U1

            Batteries.

          • Yogi baba

            Thank you Tesla, for killing crops and people in China through your graphite pollution. You could have done way better by putting a much smaller battery pack per car, like Volt and BYD’s XIN.
            But instead, you chose to exhaust the natural resources of this planet like there is no tomorrow. Thank you! Future gens will thank you again, if anyone will be left.

        • PaloAltoWorldView

          100-120K Model S&X cars for which year? Globally or in North America only? 30% gross margins or net margins? I assume you meant 2016, globally, and gross margins, but I just wanted to make sure I understood your comment correctly.

          • disqus_IjgvVbf1U1

            Are you familiar with the term “spitball math”? I was just illustrating what a plateau of 1800 or so per quarter in one state could mean.

          • PaloAltoWorldView

            Ok, ok — just checking. I try not to invest based on spitballs, so I just wanted to understand if you had a more rigorous bottoms-up math behind your assertions.

          • disqus_IjgvVbf1U1

            I wouldn’t base investment on any math in the comments section of the Internet.

  • Johnny Martinez

    the model s will be considerered junk in a few years, compared to the rest of the tesla vehicles, the model x is the model s and more, every model will be the model s and more, model s is basically a standard sedan, its still better than gasoline sedans, but why have a model s when you can have a model x or a passenger truck, these vehicles have alot more interior space so a prius size vehicle will feel and drive like a standard gas sedan

    • WeaponZero

      Everyone’s needs differ. It is like why do sedans sell when people can buy SUVs? Will there be better cars in the future? sure, but it won’t be junk, it would still meet the owners needs. I mean lets be honest, if people always end up waiting for the new better thing that comes out next year(and this will ALWAYS happen), they’ll end up riding the bus. That is why the best way to go about it is consider your minimum requirements and go from there.

    • your mom

      you can say the same thing about any technology

    • janio

      Are you a 10 year old?

    • sranger

      That is a very poor Anti tesla troll attempt…

  • Johnny Martinez

    the model s will be considerered junk in a few years, compared to the rest of the tesla vehicles, the model x is the model s and more, every model will be the model s and more, model s is basically a standard sedan, its still better than gasoline sedans, but why have a model s when you can have a model x or a passenger truck, these vehicles have alot more interior space so a prius size vehicle will feel and drive like a standard gas sedan

  • Jim5437532

    Did a new Tesla spontaneously combust while sitting in a Toronto garage?

    In the Toronto Tesla garage fire it is doubtful that the Tesla charger system is at fault because it allegedly wasn’t plugged in. Tesla offering to pay damages, suggests that the source of the fire was the Tesla model S. I would be interested in seeing the fire department’s investigation. I don’t trust Tesla’s so-called “investigations”, they are more like denial and blame games.

    The Tesla model S. still has defects that make it a fire hazard. Tesla charger connections are still overheating, melting and burning. Tesla batteries are poorly located and poorly protected. Tesla is Junk.

    On 1/9/2014 Elon Musk said that replacement adapters that are part of the recall would be mailed out within two weeks. A month later Tesla customers have still not received the replacement adapters that are part of the Tesla model S. recall.

    Several people have been injured by faulty Tesla charge connectors. Tesla is big on making promises and hype, but short on delivery. Tesla needs to start making safety a top priority. Tesla needs to stop playing blame games and games with semantics. Tesla needs to stop lying. Tesla needs to be proactive instead of reactive. Tesla is being a follower of technology, rather than a leader. Tesla is a greedy corporation that has a disregard for safety. The Tesla model S. is an E-Pinto.

    Tesla and Tesla fan boys have a bad record when it comes to safety. They have a tendency to hype safety, yet they sweep safety concerns under the carpet and drag their feet to resolve safety issues. They often threaten, harass, slander, bully, censor safety advocates, critics and skeptics. That is not a culture of safety.

    • disqus_IjgvVbf1U1

      Careful Jim I hear if you cut and paste too much your computer can run out of glue and fall apart.

    • Capt996

      Jim great job!! Your boss will be proud as you were able to get the first post again with your exact same unfounded message regarding tesla. Back to your oil barrel you go.

    • sranger

      Well no one knows… There is no evidence that the car set the garage on fire or if the car was in a garage that caught fire….

      Zero proof either way….

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  • Brahm Mauer

    Has anyone hard anything about what the Gen 3 may look like? I heard that it will still be a 4 door sedan but with fewer bells and whistles. I am hoping for a 2 door coupe – I don’t need a 4 door sedan but would be a buyer of a 2 door model.

  • dan747

    Somehow those fires are never Tesla fault, but they keep happening. If the Volt had all those fires, GM would be crucified by the media. Sooner or later Tesla luck will run out.

    • PaloAltoWorldView

      While anything greater than zero is less than optimal, it seems to me that the number of Tesla fires to date is deeply into the insignificant territory. Time will tell, obviously, but so far the statistics suggest that a Tesla is safer than the average car. Perhaps not as safe as the Volt, but in the big scheme of things close enough. At some point a car is “safe enough.”

    • Capt996

      Yes dan. All of those fires. Where? I’ve only read about 3 with one being the Mexican drunk high speed car crash. Other than those 3. What have you got? Nothing. But keep spreading misinformation. Or are you one of those that try to lump an unapproved garage EV plug as Tesla’s fault? None have been shown to be Tesla’s fault but improper wiring.

      • dan747

        You have to look at how many Tesla’s are on the road versus millions upon millions of gas operated cars. Three fires for the 20k Tesla sold are too many.

    • Yogi baba

      Nothing is ever Tesla’s fault, if it is not in its favor. So many blind fanatics. No wonder they can’t see the objects on roadways, and keep puncturing their battery packs with those.

  • mattcoop2

    Those are “delivery” numbers per quarter in California… not sales per quarter (there is always a huge backlog on internet order reservations and those customers wait on their cars with often huge variances that are based on more than just time). There are often no sales figures divulged by companies that build per order and that have no dealer networks…. because that is often considered proprietary information.

    It is also Tesla Motors’ buisness perogative (if they so decide) to slow down the deliveries of some domestic orders so that they may fill a batch of Euorpean bound shipping containers. Again, your article has a starting interpretation that is flawed. But I do acknowledge your tenacity in reporting what you think is true.

    • PaloAltoWorldView

      You would be correct if delivery lead times had increased. It appears that they have not. It takes about as long to get a Tesla in the US as it has done for any point in the last 9 months, with seemingly only relatively minor fluctuations. Your better argument is to point to growing sales outside of California, which could be huge as we’re speaking.

      • niupitang

        What is/was the mean lead time, and what is/was the standard deviation for California deliveries? If you really want to be mathematical about it.

        • PaloAltoWorldView

          5-5 weeks for factory pick-up, plus/minus 2 weeks. Add 2-3 weeks for East Coast delivery.

  • Albertico

    Sales will probably continue to decline in California until their next vehicle, the Tesla Model X makes it’s debut. California is always on top of the newest thing and is about time Tesla released their next one.

    People could also be waiting for the AWD version of the Model S which is set to release alongside the Model X

    • Yogi baba

      Tesla is toast with these fires! Hopefully, it will survive till the deliveries for model x are due. My optimistic guess is that few thousand people will loose their deposits; not that these Tesla fanatics would care.

      • Albertico

        What fires? 3 vehicle fires since Tesla began Model S sales since 2012

  • EV docmaker

    People know more about the plans of TESLA MOTORS than any other car company.
    So those who want a vehicle for big families (especially certain demographical groups
    such as Muslims and Latinos) have been are still waiting and waiting for the finally at last appearance of the Soccer Mom friendly MODEL X. That is still many months away. Then there is as Albertico mentioned the 4WD version of the MODEL S. But beyond this is the buzz that TESLA will build their giga plant battery factory that will enable the much more affordable GEN III to be made at a scale of production much greater than the current MODEL S scale. Here in Europe for the interim period there is likely to be many more MODEL S sales in Germany than in the France. Mark my words once the GEN III comes out the French market will become TESLAs biggest in Europe. Musk does not seem to get this and is spending a fortune on pampering the Germans. Sales in Germany will cost more to get while sales in France will cost less to get. Mainly because no one in France drives for 200km at a speed of 200km…in German the TESLA customer demands the ability to do 200km @ 200km so the fine tuned cars and supercharger infrastructure has to be greater at a greater cost to TESLA than it will be in France. The GEN III will have both a price and a physical size more Europeans will take to. The MODEL S is fine in Norway with a small population great tax incentives and plenty of open space countryside driving and in Germany on the no speed limit autobahn. But for many Europeans just parking a car as long as the MODEL S is a pain while the smaller GEN III will have the power of a roadster 2.5 but with the comforts of a regular car and plenty luggage space, faster charging and at one third of the price of a fully loaded MODEL S.

  • sranger

    All I can say for sure is that the wait times are getting longer, not shorter….

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  • dan747

    One has to look at the amount of Tesla’s sold and that isn’t many. Those fires would scare me of running over a sizable object at 65 miles an hour. Nope. A Tesla is not for me.

    • Capt996

      Yeah. All those Tesla’s catching fire. Crazy isn’t it. It must be like 1 every 3 minutes or so. …. Oh wait, that’s ICE cars. 1 every 3 minutes in the US alone. Or maybe you were seeing the brand new Porsche gt3’s catching fire recently. So many they told drivers to park them and they are giving out new engines.
      Guess you don’t realize only 2 Tesla’s have caught fire. And 1 after a drunk high speed crash in Mexico, that the driver ran away from. Sure seems like tesla is doing its job. And by the way, over 30,000 now. Pretty good for the first auto company to start since Chrysler.

      You need to do a little research and state facts, not make up stories to troll. Back to your gas pump job

      • Albertico

        Dan is a Tesla troll obviously by the stream of crazy remarks he has been making about Tesla in this article. Some of his comments are so obviously biased and based on his own fantasy that it is hard taking them seriously.

  • dan747

    A Volt catches on fire three weeks after given the extreme crash test, while parked with the junk cars, and the whole world writes stories about how the Volt is so prone to fires. Tesla has three fires from real road driving within one month and the media comes to it’s defense. Remember, very few Tesla have been sold and very few have been in accidents. If every time a Tesla hits and object in the road, resulting with those horrendous fires……well, don’t tell me Tesla is a very safe car! I’ll buy a car with an engine which get’s it energy from the rear instead of the front. There are millions upon millions of gas powered cars on the road and the percentage of these cars hitting an object and catching on fire is very minimal.

    • Albertico

      2 cars getting hit by metal objects which would rip through the floor cabin of a regular car, or the 3rd Tesla going 100+ mph, running through a concrete wall and into a tree; I would not classify as “objects on the road” accidents. They were freak accidents and outside the ordinary.

      Also, I do not classify a car warning it’s passengers to exit the vehicles, minutes before the fires even began, “horrendous fires”. Even less so, considering all 3 fires were contained to the front trunk of the vehicle and never entered the passenger cabin.

      Also, the 3 fires happened within 2 months, not 1 month; and given the freak nature of the accidents I was surprised it wasn’t worse.

      If you want a car that is 100% fireproof you will have to keep dreaming. There are many factors, including accidents that can cause “any” form of transportation to be involved in a fire as long as it has an energy source. There are over 30,000 Tesla Model S on the road around the world right now, and there has been many accidents involving said cars already. Your comment makes it sound as if any little thing will cause a Tesla to catch fire which couldn’t be further from the truth given all the factual evidence we have on the matter.

      • dan747

        You mention a Tesla going through a concrete wall. This is another exaggeration. A cement block wall is not a concrete wall. Some of those walls in Mexican are so weak that a person pushing on some of those walls could bring them down. If he had hit a real concrete wall, the driver might not have survived, just like hitting a good size tree. Stop the BS.

        • Albertico

          Oh, so now we are assuming that the walls are weak then. Please, give me a break. Have you ever been to a latin country that uses cement and concrete to build houses? I have; the construction is top notch because most of those countries live in hurricane prone areas. Plus, 100+ mph accidents are seldom since most people never drive that fast and safety tests don’t test cars against such speeds. Take the car you drive currently, max out the top speed, run into a wall and then hit a tree and see if the car will then be ok.

          Besides, no one really knows the strength of the wall so your attempt to downplay the car is laughable at best

  • dan747

    The alarm in the Tesla warning it’s passengers to get out after an accident is a kind of mute. Who would not get out of the car after hitting an object so hard….or was it hard.
    There are millions upon millions of gas operated cars on the road and I’ve never heard of one catching on fire for hitting an object. Yes, I’ve have seen some cars going out of control, but never catching on fire. It happened to me once because the object was large, but it did not start a fire. Had I been driving a Tesla, it would have thrown me out of control with a fire under the hood. You Tesla lovers….get real!

    • Albertico

      You have never ever heard of a gasoline car catching fire for hitting an object? So in the gasoline car fires that happen in the U.S. (1 every 3 minutes or so) you have never seen a car hit an object straight on at high speed and catch on fire?

      Are you living under a rock? There’s over 150,000 US car fires every year and a good number of them is because they hit something. Whether it be another car, a tree, a wall; whatever you want to call it. Heck, Paul Walker died in Porsche when he hit a tree and the car engulfed him and his friend in flames almost instantly…

      You couldn’t do a worse job hating on Tesla

      • dan747

        I’ve been to Mexico many times and residential buildings and walls are mostly made from cinder blocks.
        Like I’ve said before, Tesla has very few cars on the roads and cars with ICE have many millions on the roads. Of course some of those cars will catch on fire when hit hard enough and that’s what happened with Walker. But, when you have 3 Tesla hitting an object in the road in less then a month and catching on fire like they did, that’s when it makes the news…..and that it did.
        I want Tesla to succeed, but by not changing the rules just for themselves and have an attitude to heck with the other auto builders. Tesla wants people to think they are so far ahead of all auto makers in design and engineering, when in fact their design comes from GM’s skateboard design from the 90’s. Also, using over 70000 laptop batteries for it’s car is not what I call high tech.
        Tesla caught the big car makers off guard by building the Model S, but wait till they get real competition and we will see what happens. When that happens, we will see Tesla stocks crash and then Elon Musk will be looking for a buyer. Expert financial people are predicting this so I’m not fantasizing. For a while, rumors were that GM or even Apple would buy Tesla. My thoughts are no big auto company wants to buy a small company that serves them no reasons.
        So go back to your dreams and keep the hype going for Tesla sake.

  • suthanalley

    Tesla’s declining sales over the last year have analysts around the world believing the company may have hit a plateau. According to 2013 annual report of Tesla, company planned to expand its presence beyond the niche market as it is operating and targeting on highly net worth environment-conscious customers. Read More http://bit.ly/Q8jAJm

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